US-RPB-ams-1u-t5 David E. Taylor (Class of 1966) oral history and papers relating to the Vietnam War1967-2014 Finding aid prepared by Barbara Ambos. Brown University Library

John Hay Library, University Archives and Manuscripts Box A Brown University Providence, RI, 02912 Tel: 401-863-3723 email:hay@brown.edu

2015 This finding aid was produced using the Archivists' Toolkit 2016-01-21 English Describing Archives: A Content Standard (DACS) David E. Taylor (Class of 1966) oral history and papers relating to the Vietnam War AMS.1U.T5 John Hay LibraryUniversity Archives and Manuscripts

Box A Brown University Providence, RI 02912 Telephone: Manuscripts: 401-863-3723; University Archives: 401-863-2148 Email: Manuscripts: hay@brown.edu; University Archives: archives@brown.edu

English 2.0 Linear feet 1962-1971 This collection is an oral history of David Taylor conducted by Professor Beth Taylor in 2010 about his experiences at Brown University and his military service during the Vietnam War. It includes uniforms he wore during the Vietnam War and supporting biographical information about David Taylor. Taylor attended Brown University on a Naval ROTC scholarship, graduating in 1966 before joining the Marine Corps. In the summer of 1968, after 18 months of flight school training, David served as a CH-53 helicopter pilot based out of Phu Bai. During his thirteen-month tour, First Lieutenant Taylor flew more than seven hundred missions. From 1969 to 1971, David then served as part of Helicopter Marine Experimental-1 (HMX-1), an elite squadron whose primary mission was to fly the President of the United States. David left HMX-1 to attend Harvard Business School and pursue a career in commercial real estate. David remained at the Trammell Crow Company until his retirement. Taylor, David E. Taylor (David E.) (Class of 1966) oral history and papers relating to the Vietnam War Biographical/Historical note

First Lieutenant David Taylor, United States Marine Corps, graduated from a public high school in Bergen County, Ridgewood, New Jersey and entered Brown University in 1962 on a Naval ROTC scholarship. However, he was not keen at being cast as a “Hawk”, and he did not openly share his feelings. He read quite a bit and felt the conflict in Vietnam was more of a civil war and did not think the Domino Theory of the day was accurate. He played on varsity baseball and basketball and was a member of the fraternity Lambda Chi Alpha. Each summer he would go on active duty. In the summer of 1965, at Quantico, he learned of President Johnson’s escalation of the war. Taylor had earlier thought by the time he finished college, the war would be over and he’d never be involved. He spent the next year on campus in a sort of state of bewilderment, feeling his commitment to ROTC had been a mistake. Just before graduation he met his first wife, Kathryn Fuller (Pembroke, Class of 1968), beginning a whirlwind relationship and then maintaining a long-distance relationship. He received his B.A. degree with a political science major in June 1966, and he immediately went to Quantico for Officer Candidates School (OCS), United States Marine Corps for six months of training. Taylor and Fuller were married in December of 1967.

The Marine Corps required all of their regular officers to be first and foremost infantry officers. To avoid infantry and delay being sent to Vietnam, Taylor chose to pursue flight school which was 12-18 months of training at the Naval Air Station in Pensacola, Florida. The Marine Corps was in the process of transitioning to virtually an all helicopter fleet for support in Vietnam. Almost 95% of the flight students at that time were training in helicopters. Taylor trained on T-28 and T-34 aircrafts for carrier-qualification. He then moved to a tiny aircraft called a TH-13M, by Bell and then to H-34, the workhorse of the Marine Corps during Korea. He finished flight training in early 1968.

He and Kathryn drove to Marine Corps Air Facility Santa Ana, California by way of Mexico. They lived in Laguna Beach in a garage apartment, because Kathryn refused to live on base. The Marine Corps was forming a new squadron to use the new experimental aircraft CH-53, so Taylor signed into the HMH – Heavy Marine Corps Helicopter 462 and continued with six more months of training with his squadron based in California. During training the squadron stabilized getting to know each other well.

In August 1968, David Taylor left for Vietnam and his wife returned to the New York area. His squadron first landed in Okinawa then flew into Da Nang at night where Taylor felt he had just walked into Dante’s inferno. The next day they flew by C-130 from Da Nang to where they were stationed at Phu Bai. The mission of the squadron was to provide logistical support (moving soldiers, supplies and equipment, and casualties in and out of battle) with CH-53s to the northern half of the operations for the Marine Corps and the northern half of I Corps. This included Hue, Khe Sanh, Con Thien, Dong Ha, Quang Tri, and A Shau Valley on the DMZ or just inside the Laotian border. During his service in Vietnam, Taylor took Forward Air Controller School, in Okinawa, and Jungle Environmental Survival Training in the Philippines and met his wife in Sydney, Australia for one R & R. Taylor served thirteen months in Vietnam and flew seven hundred missions.

In September 1969, the time for him to return to the states, Taylor applied for HMX-1, (Helicopter Marine Experimental, 1st squadron, Marine Corps). Its primary mission is to fly the President of the United States [Richard Nixon, at the time]. Its secondary mission is to be an experimental squadron. Among other things, Taylor tested laser-guided ordnances before they were ever used in warfare and test-landed the CH-53 on the White House lawn. Marine rotations were stateside for three years and then another tour in Vietnam but Taylor managed to take leave and enrolled in Harvard Business School in 1971.

By 1973, Taylor had a three-year old daughter and was working in the commercial real estate business, a partner in a firm called Trammell Crow Company, the largest company in the United States. Taylor remained at Trammell Crow Company until his retirement. Throughout his military service, Taylor felt his marriage was not as strong as it could be and he and Kathryn eventually divorced. He lived in Palm Beach, Florida at the time of the interview and admits Vietnam was the “greatest experience of my life. You faced death every day, so you looked at life differently.” In 2013, after two years and support from several Congressmen, Taylor was notified he would be receiving the Presidential Service Badge, an apparent oversight from his days in the Marine Corps and HMX-1. He credits his involvement with the Brown Vietnam Veterans Archive and Beth Taylor for facilitating his receipt of the Badge.

Collection information

David E. Taylor (Class of 1966) oral history and papers relating to the Vietnam War include an oral history interview of David E. Taylor conducted by Professor Beth Taylor (no relation to David Taylor) in March 2010 about his days at Brown University and his military experiences during the Vietnam War and publications about the Vietnam War that resonated deeply with David Taylor.

The interview chronicles his feelings about his university experiences, his military experiences in training and in Vietnam, and his personal views about the war and the changes in American culture during 1966-1969.

The collection is organized into the following 5 series:

Series 1. Oral History: This series contains the audio recording of the oral history interview of David E. Taylor conducted by Professor Beth Taylor on March 29, 2010 about his days at Brown University and his military experiences during the Vietnam War. A copy of the audio recording on CD-ROM is included in the collection and is accessible in MP3 format in the Brown Digital Repository. This series also contains a transcription of the interview, a copy of which includes annotations by David Taylor, and Beth Taylor's notes written during the interview.

Series 2. Correspondence via email: This series includes emails from David Taylor that followed his 2010 interview with Beth Taylor and an exchange with Brown student Marjory O'Toole who was researching his flight jacket. They include further memories of Brown, people he met in the service, and his recollections of LZ Argonne operations support, which he felt is accurately depicted in "Matterhorn" by Karl Marlantes and LZ Neville [see Series 5. Supporting materials].

Series 3. Photographs: These photographs show First Lieutenant David Taylor with the new semi-experimental aircraft CH-53. The Marine Corps was in the process of transitioning to virtually an all helicopter fleet for support in Vietnam. Almost 95% of the flight training students at that time were training on helicopters.

Series 4. Museum Objects: This series contains 4 items of military clothing worn by Taylor during his service in Vietnam and the "Description of USMC items received from David E. Taylor" which includes colorful commentary about these items by Taylor. 1) Nomex (fireproof) flight suit with Taylor's and wings (no rank) on the breast. This is the suit he wore when he flew. 2)Taylor's G-1 leather flight jacket complete with squadron patches and some from the Presidential squadron that were added later. Name and rank sewn on the breast. Standard issue. 3) A pair of flight boots. These were made by the H. Brown shoe company. They have steel toes for protection from ejection seats and loss of toes on exit from the aircraft, though helicopters did not have the benefit of an ejection seat or a parachute. When a helicopter goes down, the pilot goes down. This is Taylor's second pair of boots and are virtually unworn as he wore them only a few times. Issue date of Jan 1968 stamped inside. 4) Taylor's upland green camouflage utilities uniform.

Series 5. Supporting materials: An article and book that David Taylor felt accurately depicted the experiences of the Vietnam War: "The Battle for LZ Neville" by Janie Blankenship from the VFW Magazine and "The Arnheiter Affair" by Neil Sheehan (Random House: 1971).

Although Brown University has physical ownership of the collection and the materials contained therein, it does not claim literary rights. Researchers should note that compliance with copyright law is their responsibility. Researchers must determine the owners of the literary rights and obtain any necessary permissions from them.

There are no restrictions on access, except that the collection can only be seen by prior appointment. Some materials may be stored off-site and cannot be produced on the same day on which they are requested.

David E. Taylor (Class of 1966) oral history and papers relating to the Vietnam War, AMS.1U.T5, Brown University Library.

This collection is organized in 5 series.

Series 1. Oral History Series 2. Correspondence via email Series 3. David Taylor photographs Series 4. Museum Objects Series 5. Supporting materials

Administrative information

Given by David E. Taylor (Class of 1966) June 6, 2012.

Additional information

Part of the Vietnam Veterans Archive (Brown University).

Names Brown University--Societies, etc. Brown University--Student life and customs Brown University. Class of 1966. Brown University. Naval ROTC. Fuller, Kathryn S. Generous, William Thomas Lambda Chi Alpha. (Brown University). Marlantes, Karl McCain, John, 1936- Pembroke College (Brown University)--Students. Pembroke College (Brown University). Rockwell, George Lincoln, 1918-1967 Seiple, Robert A., 1942- Sheehan, Neil Smith, Fred, 1944- Taylor, Elizabeth S. (Beth) United States. Department of the Navy. United States. Marine Corps. Uniforms. United States. Marine Corps. United States. Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 462. United States. Navy. Medals, badges, decorations, etc. Vietnam Veterans Archive (Brown University). Webb, James H Women's College (Brown University). Zimmer, Jerry A. (Jerry Allen), 1944-1969 Subjects A Shau Valley (Vietnam) Air pilots, Military Brown University--Riots Kennedy, John F.--(John Fitzgerald),--d 1917-1963--Assassination Khé Sanh (Vietnam) Korean War, 1950-1953 Marines--Medals, badges, decorations, etc. Military helicopters Naval Air Station Pensacola (Fla.) Nineteen sixties Vietnam War, 1961-1975 Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Aerial operations, American Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Camouflage (Military science) Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Fiction Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American RIAMCO Browsing Term Military Oral history Series 1 Interview with David E. Taylor (1966) 2010 March 29 Scope and Contents note

Conducted in the John Hay Library by Prof. Beth Taylor (no relation to David Taylor) on March 29, 2010. See also the Transcription of this interview.

Interview with David E. Taylor (1966), 2010 March 29

Interview with David E. Taylor (1966) audio on 2 CD-ROM discs 1 1 2.0 compact discs 2010 March 29 Interview with David E. Taylor (1966) - Transcription 74.0 pages 2010 March 29

Interview with David E. Taylor (1966) - Transcription, 2010 March 29

Interview with David E. Taylor (1966) - Transcription with handwritten annotations by David Taylor 1 2 76.0 pages 2010 March 29 Scope and Contents note

Conducted in the John Hay Library by Prof. Beth Taylor (no relation to David Taylor) on March 29, 2010.

Years at Brown questions and Pilot's questionnaire 1 3 6.0 pages 2010 March Scope and Contents note

Prof. Beth Taylor's pre-interview questions.

Years at Brown Questions: What years were you at Brown? Why did you choose Brown? What kind of college was it then? What was life like on campus then? What was your happiest memory? What was your funniest memory? What was your saddest memory? What was your biggest accomplishment? What actions would you change if you had a chance to re-live those years again? What should people today remember about this time at Brown? What else do you want to tell me about Brown? Pilot Questions: Are you presently employed and if so what is your title? Just prior to going into the service, what do you remember most about being a civilian? What do you remember about receiving your draft notice, or enlisting into the military? What do you remember about Basic Training? Where did you take your OCS training? What year was it? What made you want to become a Navy pilot? Tell me about your training to become a pilot? Where did you take this training? What planes were you qualified to fly? Where did you learn how to fly from carriers? What do you remember about Advanced Infantry Training? When, how, and what do you remember about getting the word that you were going to Vietnam? Were you married at the time? Did you have any children? Prior to your departure for Vietnam, what do you remember about your send off (i.e. party, visiting Friends and family, etc.)? Did you have any unfriendly encounters with civilians before your departure (spitting, bad looks, words, etc)? What do you remember most about your trip to Vietnam? Did you go by boat (carrier) or plane? What were your first impressions about flying over North Vietnam? Briefly tell me what the experience was like from the start of your mission until its conclusion. Did you feel prepared mentally for your experience? Was there anything you didn;t count on? What was your first combat experience? What can you say about the enemy? What can you tell me about your friends back on the base? Do you still remember their names and where they came from? Do you remember any funny stories about them? If you went to an Officers Club or the Officers Lounge on a carrier, did you have any memorable experiences? Tell me the highlights of your R&Rs. where did you go, what did you do, what was your most memorable experience while on R&R? How did you get assigned targets on your bombing runs and how did you find them? What did it feel like being shot at in the air? Tell me about some of your lucky near miss experiences. Tell me about the day you were shot down and how you were wounded. Did you lose any friends there? Did you ever experience fatigue while flying any missions? What did you do about it? Do you have any regrets or anything you would change if you could do it all over again? What do you remember about being a short timer? How did you get back home from Vietnam, jet or carrier? What do you remember about arriving back in the states? What do you remember about arriving at your home? In regard to the healing process, do you have any physical problems from your Vietnam experience? Do you have any anxiety or experience any nightmares about your Vietnam experience? Do you give it any thought? Is there anything else you would like to tell me about your experience that you think others may enjoy hearing about?

Years at Brown questions and Pilot's Questionnaire - typed transcription of David Taylor's answers 1 3 2.0 pages 2010 March 26

Brown Years questions and Pilot's Questionnaire - typed transcription of David Taylor's answers, 2010 March 26

Nineteen sixties Vietnam War, 1961-1975 Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Aerial operations, American Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Brown University Oral History Project Release Form 1 4 1.0 page with envelope 2009 Dec 9 Scope and Contents note

Brown university Oral History Project Release Form

Military biography of David Taylor, based on his oral history, written by Ellora Velkin, Brown Class of 2014 1 5 4.0 pages 2014 December 18

Military biography of David Taylor, based on his oral history, written by Ellora Velkin, Brown Class of 2014, 2014 December 18

Correspondence via Email Series 2 David Taylor to Beth Taylor - Memory Email 1 6 2009 January 11

David Taylor - Memory email, 2009 January 11

David Taylor to Beth Taylor - after reading Matterhorn by Karl Marlantes 1 6 1.0 page 2010 April

David Taylor to Beth Taylor - after reading Matterhorn by Karl Marlantes, 2010 April

David Taylor to Beth Taylor - "The internet is amazing..." 1 6 1.0 page relates to "The Battle for LZ Neville" .PDF bdr:404552 2010 May 4 Scope and Contents note

relates to "The Battle for LZ Neville" .PDF bdr:404552

David Taylor to Beth Taylor - "The internet is amazing...", 2010 May 4

David Taylor to Beth Taylor - Captured: a look back at the Vietnam War on the 35th Anniversary of the Fall of Saigon 1 6 2010 May 5 Scope and Contents note

David Taylor included a link to the Denver Post photo blog which published 141 images from the Vietnam War and the Fall of Saigon. Photo 138 is an image of a helicopter in David Taylor's squadron evacuating people from Saigon on April 29, 1975. Photo 109 is an image of John Kerry, former navy lieutenant who headed the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in Washington, D.C., April 22, 1971. Professor Beth Taylor was in the room when the photo was taken. Includes the introduction to the photo blog and photos 109 and 138.

David Taylor to Beth Taylor - Captured: a look back at the Vietnam War on the 35th Anniversary of the Fall of Saigon, 2010 May 5

Beth Taylor and Marjorie O'Toole - Re: Question about David Taylor flight jacket 1 6 2.0 pages 2012 September 17 Marjory O'Toole to Beth Taylor - "Mr. Taylor was kind enough to answer my questions..." 1 6 5.0 pages 2012 September 17-19

Marjory O'Toole to Beth Taylor - "Mr. Taylor was kind enough to answer my questions...", 2012 September 17-19

David Taylor to Beth Taylor - Presidential Service Badge 1 6 1.0 page 2013 January 27

David Taylor to Beth Taylor - Presidential Service Badge, 2013 January 27

David Taylor to Beth Taylor - "Owl and Ring" organization description 1 7 2.0 pages 2014 February 28

David Taylor to Beth Taylor - "Owl and Ring" organization description, 2014 February 28

David Taylor to David Oyer (Class of 2016) - regarding 1963 panty raid that turned into a riot at Brown University 1 7 2.0 pages 2014 May 8, 8 a.m.

David Taylor to David Oyer (Class of 2016) - regarding 1963 panty raid that turned into a riot at Brown University, 2014 May 8

David Taylor to David Oyer (Class of 2016) - follow up to regarding 1963 panty raid that turned into a riot at Brown University 1 7 1.0 page 2014 May 8, 9 a.m.

David Taylor to David Oyer (Class of 2016) - follow up to regarding 1963 panty raid that turned into a riot at Brown University, 2014 May 8

Sikorsky HH-53 Super Jolly Green Giant Rescue Mission - YouTube link 1 7 circa 2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ATcN-Wgz1U Scope and Contents note

"Live footage of a 53 in action on recovery of pilot downed. Taken several years after I was in VietNam. This was of an Air Force aircraft. They decided that the 53 was such an effective helicopter the bought them and specialized the aircraft for pilot recovery, calling it an HH-53 rather than CH-53. They renamed it "Super Jolly" (Green Giant). The plane was designed for and by the Marine Corps originally. You can see why I loved it so much and why you could never go back. Or maybe you could go back? I did not. Enough adrenalin for a lifetime in 20 minutes." David

Sikorsky HH-53 Super Jolly Green Giant Rescue Mission - YouTube link, circa 2014

Photographs Series 3 David Taylor with CH-53 A, DaNang at Marble Mountain Marine Corps helicopter base. 1 8 1969 Spring Scope and Contents note

"Photo taken in DaNang in the spring of 1969 at Marble Mountain Marine Corps helicopter base. I am standing of front of my trusty steed a (CH-53A.) I was a l a 1st Lt. at the time soon to be promoted to Captain. I had taken the aircraft to DaNang to pick up some parts. I was a test pilot in addition to my regular duties and occassionaly had to go to DaNang to get parts from group or wing supply to keep the aircraft flying. You have my flight suit and flight boots I am wearing in your inventory. I would have been 24 years of age at the time of the photo. Photo taken by my co-pilot Bob Ryan, a Notre Dame graduate who was later killed flying a 53. I was probably a veteran of about 450 combat missions at this point in my tour, which culminated in 700 missions. " -- David Taylor.

David Taylor with CH-53 A, DaNang at Marble Mountain Marine Corps helicopter base., 1969 Spring

David Taylor getting wings pinned by Kathryn Fuller. 1 8 1.0 item circa 1968 January

David Taylor's description of this photograph: " 'Very Young' of David Taylor having his Wings pinned on by Kathryn Fuller. [This] was the date that my wings were pinned on. The party doing the pinning is my wife, Kathryn Fuller 1968 Pembroke. The date would have been about end of Jan or so, 1968. She finished school 6 months early (we were married in Dec of 1967). As I mentioned this was after my motorcycle fiasco that result in a broken wrist, and gouged chin. We went to California after this, via Mazatlan, Mexico (driving) and ended up living in Laguna Beach prior to my departure for Vietnam in August of 1968. Kathryn is the mother of our daughter, Sarah, and currently affiliated with Brown as a Fellow of the University I believe. Katheryn's career was later as President of World Wildlife Fund (WWF), and I believe Chair of the Board of Ford Foundation."

David Taylor getting wings pinned by Kathryn Fuller, circa January 1968

David Taylor with helmet and helicopter. 1 8 circa 1967

David Taylor with helmet and helicopter, circa 1967

Museum objects Series 4 Description of USMC items received from David E. Taylor (1966) 1 9 2.0 pages 2012 January 12 Scope and Contents note

David Taylor's hand written descriptions of the items he sent to Prof. Taylor.

Description of USMC items received from David E. Taylor (1966) , 2012 January 12

Navy G-1 Flight Jacket 2 1968 Scope and Contents note

G-1 leather flight jacket complete with squadron patches and some from the Presidential squadron that were added later. Name and rank sewn on the breast.

Worn mostly in cold monsoon weather, but also in aircraft. Teperatures would drop 1-3 degrees per 1,000 feet so it's cold at 10,000 feet and frigid at 30,000 feet.

G-1 Flight Jacket, 1968

Nomex flight suit 3 1.0 item 1968 Scope and Contents note

"Nomex fire resistant suit introduced around 1968 to replace international orange and tan suits. Colors and materials were an advantage in Vietnam: --On left sleeve there was an area for pencils, pens and a small pocket for miscellaneous stuff like morphine or small escape equipment;--On the left hip was a pocket for a K-Bar (United States Marine Corps issued knife);-- On the lower legs were pockets for maps and checklists."/ David Taylor [Photograph in this collection shows David Taylor with his CH53 wearing this suit and boots.]

Nomex flight suit, 1968

Camoflauge Utilities 3 1.0 item 1968 Scope and Contents note

"Upland green camoflauge utilities: issued in 1968 to replace same item in green. First issue to field troop. Pattern designed for maximum camoflauge in Vietnam. Worn mostly [as] a daytime garb when not flying or when traviling in country (RVN)." / David Taylor

Camoflauge Utilities, 1968

Flight Boots 4 1968 Scope and Contents note

These were made by the H. Brown shoe company (bought by Berkshire Hathaway). They have the steel toes for protection from ejection seats and loss of toes on exit from the aircraft. Flying helicopters, pilots did not have the benefit of an ejection seat or a parachute.

Restraining harness pulled legs back into position and steel toes prevented amputation of toes if impact on exit from aircraft. (No worry for this in helicopter, since there was no ejection seat or parachute)

David Taylor had two pairs of these boots, these were his ceremonial pair.

Supporting materials Series 5 "The Battle for LZ Neville" by Janie Blankemship from the VFW Magazine 1 10 6.0 pages Scope and Contents note

David Taylor found this write up online. Ground perspective of what his squadron experienced in late February 1969. This was the day Taylor's friend from Stanford decided to ride with him and got the "shock of his life."

"The Battle for LZ Neville" by Janie Blankenship from the VFW Magazine

"The Arnheiter Affair" by Neil Sheehan (book) 1 11 1.0 volume 1971 Sheehan, Neil Scope and Contents note

Book that David Taylor sent to Prof. Beth Taylor. "The Arnheiter Affair" tells the story of 99 days aboard the USS Vance under Captain Marcus Aurelius Arnheiter, before the 100th day, Arnheiter was dismissed. This book is "a searching account of the personalities caught in an extraordinary drama of the sea."

Sent in because one of the men Arnheiter claims was responsible for the mutiny was Brown University graduate William T. Generous. David Taylor notes that the following pages in the book contain pertinent information about William T. Generous: Page 4, 16, 18, 27, 35.

Generous, William Thomas United States. Department of the Navy. Vietnam War, 1961-1975